What Pets Actually Want & Need | Dr. Karolina Westlund
Andrew Huberman
Apr 28, 2025
Episode description
My guest is Dr. Karolina Westlund, Ph.D., a professor of ethology at the University of Stockholm and an expert in animal emotions and behavior who uses science-based methods to improve the lives of animals in human care. We discuss the often overlooked needs of domesticated animals—primarily dogs and cats—and the things we can do to improve their well-being and our relationship with them.
We cover how to interpret animal body language, the unique needs of specific dog breeds, and the needs of cats and birds. We also discuss the pros and cons of spaying and neutering and how weaning age impacts a pet’s attachment style. Whether you’re a pet owner, trainer, or simply an animal lover, this episode teaches you how specific pet behaviors are rooted in their immutable biology—and the simple things you can do to vastly improve your pets’ health and well-being, as well as your relationship with them.
Read the episode show notes: https://go.hubermanlab.com/mBbm5nJ
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*Dr. Karolina Westlund*
Website: https://illis.se/en
Online courses: https://illis.se/en/courses-menu
Blog: https://illis.se/en/blog
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/illis.se
LinkedIn: https://se.linkedin.com/in/karolina-westlund-friman
*Timestamps*
00:00:00 Karolina Westlund
00:02:19 Students & Animal Species; Horses
00:06:36 Dog Breeds & Interaction, Predatory Sequence, Smell, Domestication
00:12:42 Sponsors: Our Place & Eight Sleep
00:16:09 Dog Breeds & Domestication, Bulldogs
00:20:16 Core Affect Space, Petting, Tool: Consent Test; Polyvagal Theory
00:27:53 Space, Dominance, Resources, Leash Walking; Dog-Owner Training
00:37:13 Tail Wagging & Interpreting Body Signals, Facial Expressions
00:43:24 Play Bow, Tool: MARS & Playing; Dogs & Empathy
00:48:39 Sponsors: AG1 & Joovv
00:51:46 Fairness, Social Groups; Anthropomorphism vs Anthropodenial
00:57:45 Cats, Hunting, Bring Gifts?, Interaction & Socialization
01:03:56 Scent & Territorial Marking; Covering Waste, Tool: Litter Box Placement
01:08:17 “Pee Mail” & Communication; Wolves, Domestication
01:11:54 Zoos, Conservation; Tigers
01:18:53 Sponsor: Function
01:20:41 Stalking; Birds, Parrots
01:25:22 Nose Work, Wildlife Chasing, Tool: Dog Feeding & Challenge
01:31:01 Understanding & Choosing Dog for Your Lifestyle, Tool: Introducing Cats
01:34:27 Recognizing Self vs Other, Inbreeding Avoidance, Imprinting
01:40:51 Imprinting vs Attachment Bonds; Dogs, Weaning & Secure Attachment
01:48:36 Spaying & Neutering, Hormones, Tool: Neutering Alternatives
01:57:07 Humans as Animals, Tools, Cultural Learning
02:02:47 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter
Disclaimer & Disclosures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer
Mindsip insights from this episode:
Interpret dog tail wags to understand emotions
A dog's tail wagging more to its left side is associated with negative emotions, while wagging more to its right side is associated with positive emotions.
Understand dominance as priority access to resources, not control
The ethological definition of dominance is simply priority of access to resources to reduce conflict, not the sociological idea of control that humans often misapply to pets.
Pet dogs with slow, deliberate strokes for calming effects
Many dogs are averse to the rapid patting that humans tend to do, preferring slow, deliberate strokes which are more calming.
Recognize cultural influences on dog neutering practices
The decision to neuter a dog is highly cultural, being forbidden in Norway for non-medical reasons while mandatory in parts of Australia.
Understand dogs' attachment bonds for better relationships
Dogs don't imprint on humans but rather form complex attachment bonds that can be secure or insecure, similar to human children.
Engage dogs in nose work to balance arousal and improve mental health
Engaging dogs in nose work, where they search for scents, can help regulate their arousal by calming anxious dogs and energizing depressed ones.
Test pet consent by observing re-initiation of contact
To see if your pet truly wants to be petted, offer contact for a few seconds and then stop to see if they re-initiate the interaction.
Understand dog breeds through their predatory roles
Different dog breeds were selectively bred for specific parts of the wolf's predatory sequence, from sniffing (hounds) and stalking (pointers) to killing (terriers).
Keep cat food separate from litter box for hygiene
A cat's food bowl should be placed far from its litter box, as cats have a natural instinct not to eliminate where they eat.
Understand your cat's behavior: prey is not a gift
When a cat brings you its prey, it is not a gift but rather the cat bringing its food to a location where it feels safe.
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