The Art of Learning & Living Life | Josh Waitzkin

Andrew Huberman

Jan 27, 2025

Episode description

In this episode, my guest is Josh Waitzkin, former child chess prodigy and the subject of the movie and true story Searching for Bobby Fischer. Josh is also a world champion martial arts competitor and the author of the book The Art of Learning. We discuss Josh’s childhood as a chess prodigy and how he learned to train and compete at the highest levels by facing his fears and overcoming points of weakness. He explains the principles that unify disparate physical and mental pursuits and how understanding the interconnectedness of the learning process enables ultra-high-level performance across disciplines.

We explore how to structure one’s day to tap into the most creative, generative, and unique capabilities. Josh shares his approach to learning, including how to address flaws and mistakes and how to harness the subtle and overt energies of the learning and peak performance process. He also discusses how he structures his life and makes decisions related to career and family. This episode is sure to inspire deep thinking and practical life changes for all who listen.

Read the full episode show notes: https://go.hubermanlab.com/HAnYng6

*Thank you to our sponsors*
AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman
Wealthfront**: https://wealthfront.com/huberman
Our Place: https://fromourplace.com/huberman
Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman
Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman
Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman

_**This experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients of Wealthfront, and there is no guarantee that all clients will have similar experiences. Cash Account is offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, Member FINRA/SIPC. The Annual Percentage Yield (“APY”) on cash deposits as of December 27,‬ 2024, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds in the Cash Account are swept to partner banks where they earn the variable‭ APY. Promo terms and FDIC coverage conditions apply. Same-day withdrawal or instant payment transfers may be limited by destination institutions, daily transaction caps, and by participating entities such as Wells Fargo, the RTP® Network, and FedNow® Service. New Cash Account deposits are subject to a 2-4 day holding period before becoming available for transfer._

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*Josh Waitzkin*
Website: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com
The Art of Learning (book): https://amzlink.to/az04TcCbFULgq
Stoke Ventures Training: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com/training
The Art of Learning Project: https://theartoflearningproject.org

*Timestamps*
00:00:00 Josh Waitzkin
00:03:21 Chess, Competition & Performance
00:10:50 Martial Arts, Tai Chi, Jiu-Jitsu, Foiling, Training Others
00:14:41 Sponsors: Wealthfront & Our Place
00:17:43 Theory of Mind, Chess, Strategy & Mindset
00:26:39 Early Chess Training
00:32:30 Failure & Change, Chess, Tension, Power of Empty Space
00:43:22 Sponsors: AG1 & Joovv
00:48:06 Grief, Competition Loss, Growth, Frustration Tolerance
00:57:22 Arousal, Frame Rates, Intense Moments
01:06:17 Frame Rates & Pupil Size; Firewalking, Training
01:13:12 Sponsor: Function
01:15:58 Stress & Recovery, Tools: Doing Less, Most Important Question (MIQ)
01:23:24 Tool: Still Body, Active Mind; Shame, Strengthening Weaknesses
01:32:02 Child Prodigies, Brittle; Chess Principles & Transfer to Life
01:43:22 Sponsor: Eight Sleep
01:44:48 Preconscious vs Postconscious
01:52:02 Hypoxic Breathwork Caution & Drowning; Foiling, Fear, Postconscious
01:57:05 Static vs Dynamic Mindset, High Performers
02:05:48 Comebacks, Hunting Adversity, Living on Other Side of Pain, Tool: Cold Plunge
02:19:20 Ego, Identity, Unbreakable Will
02:29:18 Studying People; Chess, Computers; Science & AI; Ocean & Control
02:40:37 Time, Future Direction, True to Self, Wounds
02:51:07 Daily Routine, Individualization, Waking Up, Tool: MIQ Gap Analysis
03:00:21 Tool: MIQ; Stuck Points, Distraction
03:05:58 Reflective vs Stimulus-Response, Optimize Quality not Quantity
03:14:12 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Social Media, Protocols Book, Neural Network Newsletter

#HubermanLab #Learning

Disclaimer & Disclsoures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Episode description

In this episode, my guest is Josh Waitzkin, former child chess prodigy and the subject of the movie and true story Searching for Bobby Fischer. Josh is also a world champion martial arts competitor and the author of the book The Art of Learning. We discuss Josh’s childhood as a chess prodigy and how he learned to train and compete at the highest levels by facing his fears and overcoming points of weakness. He explains the principles that unify disparate physical and mental pursuits and how understanding the interconnectedness of the learning process enables ultra-high-level performance across disciplines.

We explore how to structure one’s day to tap into the most creative, generative, and unique capabilities. Josh shares his approach to learning, including how to address flaws and mistakes and how to harness the subtle and overt energies of the learning and peak performance process. He also discusses how he structures his life and makes decisions related to career and family. This episode is sure to inspire deep thinking and practical life changes for all who listen.

Read the full episode show notes: https://go.hubermanlab.com/HAnYng6

*Thank you to our sponsors*
AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman
Wealthfront**: https://wealthfront.com/huberman
Our Place: https://fromourplace.com/huberman
Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman
Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman
Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman

_**This experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients of Wealthfront, and there is no guarantee that all clients will have similar experiences. Cash Account is offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, Member FINRA/SIPC. The Annual Percentage Yield (“APY”) on cash deposits as of December 27,‬ 2024, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds in the Cash Account are swept to partner banks where they earn the variable‭ APY. Promo terms and FDIC coverage conditions apply. Same-day withdrawal or instant payment transfers may be limited by destination institutions, daily transaction caps, and by participating entities such as Wells Fargo, the RTP® Network, and FedNow® Service. New Cash Account deposits are subject to a 2-4 day holding period before becoming available for transfer._

*Follow Huberman Lab*
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@hubermanlab
X: https://x.com/hubermanlab
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hubermanlab
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hubermanlab
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-huberman
Website: https://www.hubermanlab.com
Newsletter: https://www.hubermanlab.com/newsletter

*Josh Waitzkin*
Website: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com
The Art of Learning (book): https://amzlink.to/az04TcCbFULgq
Stoke Ventures Training: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com/training
The Art of Learning Project: https://theartoflearningproject.org

*Timestamps*
00:00:00 Josh Waitzkin
00:03:21 Chess, Competition & Performance
00:10:50 Martial Arts, Tai Chi, Jiu-Jitsu, Foiling, Training Others
00:14:41 Sponsors: Wealthfront & Our Place
00:17:43 Theory of Mind, Chess, Strategy & Mindset
00:26:39 Early Chess Training
00:32:30 Failure & Change, Chess, Tension, Power of Empty Space
00:43:22 Sponsors: AG1 & Joovv
00:48:06 Grief, Competition Loss, Growth, Frustration Tolerance
00:57:22 Arousal, Frame Rates, Intense Moments
01:06:17 Frame Rates & Pupil Size; Firewalking, Training
01:13:12 Sponsor: Function
01:15:58 Stress & Recovery, Tools: Doing Less, Most Important Question (MIQ)
01:23:24 Tool: Still Body, Active Mind; Shame, Strengthening Weaknesses
01:32:02 Child Prodigies, Brittle; Chess Principles & Transfer to Life
01:43:22 Sponsor: Eight Sleep
01:44:48 Preconscious vs Postconscious
01:52:02 Hypoxic Breathwork Caution & Drowning; Foiling, Fear, Postconscious
01:57:05 Static vs Dynamic Mindset, High Performers
02:05:48 Comebacks, Hunting Adversity, Living on Other Side of Pain, Tool: Cold Plunge
02:19:20 Ego, Identity, Unbreakable Will
02:29:18 Studying People; Chess, Computers; Science & AI; Ocean & Control
02:40:37 Time, Future Direction, True to Self, Wounds
02:51:07 Daily Routine, Individualization, Waking Up, Tool: MIQ Gap Analysis
03:00:21 Tool: MIQ; Stuck Points, Distraction
03:05:58 Reflective vs Stimulus-Response, Optimize Quality not Quantity
03:14:12 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Social Media, Protocols Book, Neural Network Newsletter

#HubermanLab #Learning

Disclaimer & Disclsoures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Mindsip insights from this episode:

Neutralize aggression by removing your defense

An opponent's attack can be neutralized by removing your own defense, as aggression often needs a defense to fuel it, a principle applicable from chess to martial arts.

Invest in outcomes to fuel growth through emotional investment

To truly benefit from the process, you must care enough about the outcome to be shattered by a loss, as this emotional investment is what fuels growth.

Train in transitions to enhance perceptual frames

True high-level art is found not in static positions but in the transitions between them, and training in this 'in-between' space develops more perceptual frames than your opponent.

Learn from others' mistakes through fire walking practice

Through a practice called 'fire walking,' you can use visualization and physiological priming to learn from another person's failures with the same intensity as if you experienced them yourself.

Identify critical question nightly for morning insights

End your day by intensely identifying your most critical question, then release it to your unconscious mind overnight and brainstorm on it first thing in the morning before any other input.

Master weaknesses by leveraging your strengths

Instead of directly confronting a weakness, you can learn to master it through the lens of your existing strengths, such as learning defense through the principles of aggression.

Achieve post-conscious mastery through self-awareness journey

True, lasting mastery involves moving from a state of naive, preconscious freedom through a tunnel of self-awareness and existential crisis to an integrated, post-conscious state of liberation.

Shed winning repertoire to foster continuous growth

To maintain dynamic quality and stay ahead, world champion grappler Marcelo Garcia would abandon his entire world-championship-winning repertoire the day after a victory to begin creating a new one.

Target core weaknesses in underdeveloped areas for growth

It is often more effective to address a core psychological weakness in an area of life where you are less developed, rather than in your professional domain where you have built up defenses.

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